The Second Oldest Question

Jeff: Are there any facts in the Bible?

Brad,

Each time I point out a Bible verse (and criticize what it says) you cry foul. You accuse of me of taking passages out of context. You accuse me of being ignorant of (what I will call) the current standards for interpreting the Bible (which change from one generation to the next). Since this seems like a moving target akin to Bill Clinton's "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is," I need to ask you a couple of very simple questions so I can get my feet on some solid ground.

Are there any facts in the Bible?

If so, please name 10 facts (5 from the new and 5 from the old testaments) that stand alone without the need for interpretation.

Here's a starter list for you:

1. Jesus was a human who walked the earth around 2,000 years ago
2. Jesus had 12 apostles who had names ...
3. Jesus did tell parables to people

And, for the sake of the argument, try to pick examples of facts that at least hint at the supernatural like "4. Jesus did take a few loaves of bread and fish and fed multitudes with them."

Jeff: TruthDig Sam Harris Debate

Brad
In our discussion tonight I made many references to this debate.

Matt the Scientist Podcast

Folks

Sorry to say that we had a technical glitch tonight and the conversation with Matt was not recorded. It was really great too!

I think I know what I did wrong so this shouldn't happen again.

Thanks to Matt for the great conversation. If he is willing, we'll have him back on again and hopefully the sound engineer won't screw up!

Brad: Clear Logic #3--the God of Love and Job

I will respond to Jeff's No Logic with one more response. He has two more questions in that posting that have to do with Jesus, and because we have agreed to focus the blog on the evidence for Jesus, I will answer those last two within the larger dialog as we move forward.

Jeff: Questions for Next Podcast

Folks
We will be hosting scientist Matt this Thursday for our Podcast version. Please submit any questions you'd like us to consider in our discussion.
Thanks!

Jeff: Endless Loop

re: Brad: Completely logical, part 1

You've answered two of my questions so far. Yet, I think we are in an endless loop here. Your answers are interesting if we were debating the finer points of a mutually held belief system (like the Jews ardently debate theirs). But since we are not, since we are on opposite sides over the question of the very existence of God, your hermeneutics fall on deaf ears. You see, for biblical citations to make any impact on me I'd need to believe in God first. And, moreover, I'd need to believe in your triune God and the miracle of the Bible as the direct word of God.

Jeff: God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

Link: God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs.

Well, after reading this page, I think my work is done here.

Brad: Clear logic, #2

Jeff wrote the following:

Assertion: If you haven't asked Jesus to be your personal savior, your soul is damned for eternity and "Man is made in the image of God."

Case:
Christopher Hitchens is a brilliant man. He's taken the thankless road
of the polemicist who refuses to attach himself to any particular
creed, dogma, party or system. He doesn't like short-cuts. He prefers
to meet each experience head-on and try and judge it against his own
personal moral sensibility. Or to out it another way, he runs each
experience through his own bullshit detector.

Question: The Christian model for existence believes Christopher is going to Hell. Yet, Christopher is simply using his own God-given
ability to reason, assess and consider evidence. He wants justice and
looks for it everywhere and tries to cry foul when it is betrayed. Why
should Christopher Hitchens go to Hell? I don't want to believe in the
God, even if He could be proven to exist, who would send Christopher to
Hell.

My answer:
Jeff, three people/images come to mind when I think of your question.

Brad: Completely logical, part 1

Jeff believes there are certain logical inconsistencies within certain parts of Christianity. In His post, No Logic, he cites some common questions atheists ask. I will answer them one at a time this week so all have time to ponder.

He first writes the following Assertion/Case: